Road Safety critic, Mike Dickin killed in car accident

[d***@aol.com]

TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of the
governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He knew that
the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to road safety of
the removal of traffic police. He was also highly critical of police
responses to emergency calls and the way that complaints were handled
in ever-controlling Blair's Britain. Mike has been described as 'the
original grumpy old man', and it is seldom that you could hear a radio
presenter talk with such passion and at times, real anger. At the same
time, he was a kindly soul and had many an affectionate word for his
callers, as well as the odd rebuke.

I understand there was a six car pile up, two people were injured and
Mike was airlifted to hospital but was found to be dead upon arrival.

Very few broadcasters speak up for the public as Mike did. It is the
country's loss as well as his family's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/20/udickin120.xml

Turk182

[johannes]

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of the
governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He knew that
the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to road safety of
the removal of traffic police. He was also highly critical of police
responses to emergency calls and the way that complaints were handled
in ever-controlling Blair's Britain. Mike has been described as 'the
original grumpy old man', and it is seldom that you could hear a radio
presenter talk with such passion and at times, real anger. At the same
time, he was a kindly soul and had many an affectionate word for his
callers, as well as the odd rebuke.
I understand there was a six car pile up, two people were injured and
Mike was airlifted to hospital but was found to be dead upon arrival.
Very few broadcasters speak up for the public as Mike did. It is the
country's loss as well as his family's.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/20/udickin120.xml
Turk182

Yes yes, but this was posted already Tuesday...

[Turk182]

Post by johannes

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of the
governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He knew that
the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to road safety of
the removal of traffic police. He was also highly critical of police
responses to emergency calls and the way that complaints were handled
in ever-controlling Blair's Britain. Mike has been described as 'the
original grumpy old man', and it is seldom that you could hear a radio
presenter talk with such passion and at times, real anger. At the same
time, he was a kindly soul and had many an affectionate word for his
callers, as well as the odd rebuke.
I understand there was a six car pile up, two people were injured and
Mike was airlifted to hospital but was found to be dead upon arrival.
Very few broadcasters speak up for the public as Mike did. It is the
country's loss as well as his family's.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/20/udickin120.xml
Turk182

Yes yes, but this was posted already Tuesday...

No .No ... I think you are operating your computer incorrectly, have
you checked your operating instructions? Please refer to your owners
manual. Do you have an EU computer driving licence?

Turk182

[jb]

Post by johannes

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of the
governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He knew that
the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to road safety of
the removal of traffic police. He was also highly critical of police
responses to emergency calls and the way that complaints were handled
in ever-controlling Blair's Britain. Mike has been described as 'the
original grumpy old man', and it is seldom that you could hear a radio
presenter talk with such passion and at times, real anger. At the same
time, he was a kindly soul and had many an affectionate word for his
callers, as well as the odd rebuke.
I understand there was a six car pile up, two people were injured and
Mike was airlifted to hospital but was found to be dead upon arrival.
Very few broadcasters speak up for the public as Mike did. It is the
country's loss as well as his family's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/20/udickin120.xml

Post by johannes

Post by d***@aol.com
Turk182

Yes yes, but this was posted already Tuesday...

Mike served his purpose!
As a sounding board for the disgruntled amongst us.
He fielded growing unrest in the country by channelling the disquiet into
"almost action".
Our political masters are past masters(g) at diverting our attention span
into "almost action".
"Almost action" just keeps us simmering, it doesn't allow us to reach
boiling point.
I am so happy that the plan continues to work amongst the useful idiots.

As Churchill was overheard to remark,"Jaw,jaw is better than war,war", it
also serves to maintain the status quo, meanwhile the plan to enslave the
masses continues apace:-))

[Ivan]

Post by jb

Post by johannes

Post by d***@aol.com
Very few broadcasters speak up for the public as Mike did. It is the
country's loss as well as his family's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/20/udickin120.xml

Post by jb

Post by johannes

Post by d***@aol.com
Turk182

Yes yes, but this was posted already Tuesday...

Mike served his purpose!
As a sounding board for the disgruntled amongst us.
He fielded growing unrest in the country by channelling the disquiet
into "almost action".
Our political masters are past masters(g) at diverting our attention
span into "almost action".
"Almost action" just keeps us simmering, it doesn't allow us to reach
boiling point.
I am so happy that the plan continues to work amongst the useful idiots.
As Churchill was overheard to remark,"Jaw,jaw is better than
war,war", it also serves to maintain the status quo, meanwhile the
plan to enslave the masses continues apace:-))

An excellent observation, as I've often wondered why some of the more
outrageous utterances I've heard in the past from several high-profile
presenters haven't had them hauled off the air pronto to face the
broadcasting witch finder generals, or even Inspector Knacker himself.

Maybe as you pointed out, it's because the authorities turn a blind eye
because they realise that radio shock jocks can act as a kind of safety
valve, allowing a sizeable chunk of an angry disaffected populace to let off
steam.

Although having said that, I'd be more inclined to think that they're very
afraid of creating 'martyrs of free speech', especially now, after burning
their fingers so badly with the Nick Griffin case.

[Aramis Gunton]

Post by Ivan
Maybe as you pointed out, it's because the authorities turn a blind eye
because they realise that radio shock jocks can act as a kind of safety
valve, allowing a sizeable chunk of an angry disaffected populace to
let off steam.

A while back "Gaunty" that master of the 'Controversial" hosted a phone
in concerning the "veil". During the proceedings he proved very adept at
fielding (i.e. cutting Off) any caller who had the audacity to suggest
that "... anyone could be under the burqa"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4516567.stm

Now as the 'acceptable line' has been repositioned due to unfortunate
(alleged) events he has recently been calling wholeheartedly for an
outright ban.

However as he is at pains to point out probably 175 times each 'show'
"Gaunty Is Not A Racist... I Haven't A Racist Bone In My Body".

Well of course not. You wouldn't be on 'Talk Sport' if you did eh?

[Aramis Gunton]

Post by jb
Mike served his purpose!
As a sounding board for the disgruntled amongst us. He fielded growing
unrest in the country by channelling the disquiet into "almost action".

Indeed!!!

Want to keep your job??? - Toe the line.

Post by jb
Our political masters are past masters(g) at diverting our attention
span into "almost action".

Whilst they continue apace drafting legislation and enacting effective
smear tactics for the impatient amongst us who forget the 'almost'
aspect eh?

Of course at last resort we can always "Go for a stroll"

Post by jb
"Almost action" just keeps us simmering, it doesn't allow us to reach
boiling point.

True yet the needle has come a tad closer to the red line of late.

Maybe we need an "Ipswich Strangler - Polish Plumber" to toss another
log on the fires of discontent.

Post by jb
I am so happy that the plan continues to work amongst the useful idiots.

Sorry... What was we on about????

Post by jb
As Churchill was overheard to remark,"Jaw,jaw is better than war,war",
it also serves to maintain the status quo, meanwhile the plan to
enslave the masses continues apace:-))

I think the 'masses' have become pretty adept at enslaving themselves.

"Bauble.... Oooohhh Luvly Bauble... Must Have.. Gimmmee Gimmmeee"

[Daytona]

Post by jb
Mike served his purpose!
As a sounding board for the disgruntled amongst us.
He fielded growing unrest in the country by channelling the disquiet into
"almost action".
Our political masters are past masters(g) at diverting our attention span
into "almost action".
"Almost action" just keeps us simmering, it doesn't allow us to reach
boiling point.
I am so happy that the plan continues to work amongst the useful idiots.
As Churchill was overheard to remark,"Jaw,jaw is better than war,war", it
also serves to maintain the status quo, meanwhile the plan to enslave the
masses continues apace:-))

Good point, but the numbers of people being criminalised as a result
of speed limit transgressions has now exceeded those found guilty of
all other offences and it's growing year on year. I can't see how the
policy can be sustained as more people will be unlikely to vote for
the party that caused their conviction. The fine and the points is the
least of their problems, as insurance premiums are likely to be
increased over the subsequent 5 years.

Some facts -

The UK has been consistently rated in the top 5 safest countries for
the number of road deaths per mileage covered, according to the annual
OECD survey <URL:http://www.cemt.org/irtad/IRTADPUBLIC/we2.html>

3,201 people were killed on Britain's roads in 2005 - DfT/ONS - Road
Casualties Great Britain 2005 Annual Report


Conviction rates -

1990 -
2001
%
change in

convictions per million vehicle kilometres

Accident offences -59.9%
Unauthorised taking or theft of motor vehicle -56.9%
Dangerous, careless or drunken driving etc -45.6%
Neglect of traffic signs and directions and pedestrian rights -37.4%
Other motor vehicle offences (except obstruction, parking etc) -17.4%
Vehicle test and condition offences -15.6%
Licence, insurance and record keeping offences -13.3%
Speed limit offences +67.3%

Source :

Transport Statistics for Great Britain 2002 - Table 4.20 - Motor
Vehicle Offences: findings of guilt at all courts, fixed penalty
notices and written warnings: by type of offence: England and Wales:
1990 - 2001
<URL:http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_control/documents/contentservertemplate/dft_index.hcst?n=8502&l=2>
Transport Statistics for Great Britain 2002 - Table 9.7 - Road traffic
by type of vehicle: 1938 - 2001
<URL:http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_control/documents/contentservertemplate/dft_index.hcst?n=8502&l=2>

West Midlands Road Accident Review - Analysis of accident reports from
the 9 metropolitan boroughs -

In 2001 there were 10,529 accidents -

8,165 (78%) accidents did not involve pedestrians
2,364 (22%) accidents involved pedestrians

The most common precipitating factors amongst the 10,529 accidents
recorded by the West Midland Police reports were -

3,218 (31%) caused by drivers careless, thoughtless or reckless
behaviour
1,699 (16%) caused by pedestrian entering carriageway without looking
1,497 (14%) caused by driver inattention
696 (7%) caused by driver following too closely
670 (6%) caused by drivers lack of judgement of vehicles path
385 (4%) caused by drivers failure to judge other persons speed or
path
330 (3%) caused by drivers excessive speed
323 (3%) caused by driver failing to avoid pedestrian


Causes of death -

Death by cause in the UK 2003

Coronary Heart Disease (CVD) 113,895
Stroke (CVD) 65,764
Other Cardiovascular Diseases (CVD) 53,063
Lung cancer 33.420
Colo-rectal cancer 16,142
Breast cancer 12,625
Other cancer 96,258
Respiratory conditions 84,405
Injuries and poisoning 20,175
All other causes 115,124

<URL:http://www.bhf.org.uk/professionals/uploaded/factsheet2005finalaw.pdf>

Excess winter deaths aka Winter Mortality - 25,700
<URL:http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=574>



Daytona

[Johannes Andersen]

Post by d***@aol.com

Post by johannes

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of the
governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He knew that
the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to road safety of
the removal of traffic police. He was also highly critical of police
responses to emergency calls and the way that complaints were handled
in ever-controlling Blair's Britain. Mike has been described as 'the
original grumpy old man', and it is seldom that you could hear a radio
presenter talk with such passion and at times, real anger. At the same
time, he was a kindly soul and had many an affectionate word for his
callers, as well as the odd rebuke.
I understand there was a six car pile up, two people were injured and
Mike was airlifted to hospital but was found to be dead upon arrival.
Very few broadcasters speak up for the public as Mike did. It is the
country's loss as well as his family's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/20/udickin120.xml

Post by johannes

Post by d***@aol.com
Turk182

Yes yes, but this was posted already Tuesday...

Mike served his purpose!
As a sounding board for the disgruntled amongst us.
He fielded growing unrest in the country by channelling the disquiet into
"almost action".
Our political masters are past masters(g) at diverting our attention span
into "almost action".
"Almost action" just keeps us simmering, it doesn't allow us to reach
boiling point.
I am so happy that the plan continues to work amongst the useful idiots.
As Churchill was overheard to remark,"Jaw,jaw is better than war,war", it
also serves to maintain the status quo, meanwhile the plan to enslave the
masses continues apace:-))

I think (or hope) that Mike Dickin was very effective in exposing some of
the official lunacy by those who are supposed to govern us. The things he
found were staggering, such e.g. as the Customs & excise confiscation of
cars, in spite of losing a court case against this practice. The councils
who insisted to collect fines by bailiffs, when it was plain that a car
had been stolen and therefore not used by the owner... and many many other
cases of heartless pursuits of extracting un-owed money from a hapless
citizens. But what set Mike Dickin apart, was that he was always well
researched, argued his case well and had the key people on his program.

[Turk182]

Post by Johannes Andersen

Post by d***@aol.com

Post by johannes

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of the
governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He knew that
the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to road safety of
the removal of traffic police. He was also highly critical of police
responses to emergency calls and the way that complaints were handled
in ever-controlling Blair's Britain. Mike has been described as 'the
original grumpy old man', and it is seldom that you could hear a radio
presenter talk with such passion and at times, real anger. At the same
time, he was a kindly soul and had many an affectionate word for his
callers, as well as the odd rebuke.
I understand there was a six car pile up, two people were injured and
Mike was airlifted to hospital but was found to be dead upon arrival.
Very few broadcasters speak up for the public as Mike did. It is the
country's loss as well as his family's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/20/udickin120.xml

Post by johannes

Post by d***@aol.com
Turk182

Yes yes, but this was posted already Tuesday...

Mike served his purpose!
As a sounding board for the disgruntled amongst us.
He fielded growing unrest in the country by channelling the disquiet into
"almost action".
Our political masters are past masters(g) at diverting our attention span
into "almost action".
"Almost action" just keeps us simmering, it doesn't allow us to reach
boiling point.
I am so happy that the plan continues to work amongst the useful idiots.
As Churchill was overheard to remark,"Jaw,jaw is better than war,war", it
also serves to maintain the status quo, meanwhile the plan to enslave the
masses continues apace:-))

I think (or hope) that Mike Dickin was very effective in exposing some of
the official lunacy by those who are supposed to govern us. The things he
found were staggering, such e.g. as the Customs & excise confiscation of
cars, in spite of losing a court case against this practice. The councils
who insisted to collect fines by bailiffs, when it was plain that a car
had been stolen and therefore not used by the owner... and many many other
cases of heartless pursuits of extracting un-owed money from a hapless
citizens. But what set Mike Dickin apart, was that he was always well
researched, argued his case well and had the key people on his program.

Excellent appraisal of Mike's work. And as I have pointed out, the
biggest enemy of this kind of radio expose is now the BBC at local
level, who have placed a blanket ban on most programmes doing
investigative journalism and broadcasting government knocking calls,
and local commercial radio, who are frightened of losing licences if
they knock the system; as well as being fearful of 'partnerships' and
corporations who may advertise with them. The combined effect is that
the population are being fooled into thinking nobody cares.

Turk182

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of the
governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He knew that
the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to road safety of
the removal of traffic police. He was also highly critical of police
responses to emergency calls and the way that complaints were handled
in ever-controlling Blair's Britain.

Does his fate support his arguments, or undermine them? Just a
thought.

If we all drove at 5mph 100 yards apart, accidents would be very rare
indeed.

My solution: robot cars. Automatic safe drivers. Only they aren't
quite ready yet - unless we all drive at 5mph 100 yards apart...

[johannes]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of the
governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He knew that
the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to road safety of
the removal of traffic police. He was also highly critical of police
responses to emergency calls and the way that complaints were handled
in ever-controlling Blair's Britain.

Does his fate support his arguments, or undermine them? Just a
thought.
If we all drove at 5mph 100 yards apart, accidents would be very rare
indeed.
My solution: robot cars. Automatic safe drivers. Only they aren't
quite ready yet - unless we all drive at 5mph 100 yards apart...

A man walking and waving a flag in front of every car.

[Brimstone]

Post by johannes

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of
the governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He
knew that the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to
road safety of the removal of traffic police. He was also highly
critical of police responses to emergency calls and the way that
complaints were handled in ever-controlling Blair's Britain.

Does his fate support his arguments, or undermine them? Just a
thought.
If we all drove at 5mph 100 yards apart, accidents would be very rare
indeed.
My solution: robot cars. Automatic safe drivers. Only they aren't
quite ready yet - unless we all drive at 5mph 100 yards apart...

A man walking and waving a flag in front of every car.

Which didn't prevent collisions, AIUI.

[Virgils Ghost]

Post by Brimstone

Post by johannes

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of
the governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He
knew that the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to
road safety of the removal of traffic police. He was also highly
critical of police responses to emergency calls and the way that
complaints were handled in ever-controlling Blair's Britain.

Does his fate support his arguments, or undermine them? Just a
thought.
If we all drove at 5mph 100 yards apart, accidents would be very rare
indeed.
My solution: robot cars. Automatic safe drivers. Only they aren't
quite ready yet - unless we all drive at 5mph 100 yards apart...

A man walking and waving a flag in front of every car.

Which didn't prevent collisions, AIUI.

You mean people got fed up and ran him over?

[Peter Hucker]

Post by Virgils Ghost

Post by Brimstone

Post by johannes

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of
the governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He
knew that the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to
road safety of the removal of traffic police. He was also highly
critical of police responses to emergency calls and the way that
complaints were handled in ever-controlling Blair's Britain.

Does his fate support his arguments, or undermine them? Just a
thought.
If we all drove at 5mph 100 yards apart, accidents would be very rare
indeed.
My solution: robot cars. Automatic safe drivers. Only they aren't
quite ready yet - unless we all drive at 5mph 100 yards apart...

A man walking and waving a flag in front of every car.

Which didn't prevent collisions, AIUI.

You mean people got fed up and ran him over?

ROTFPMSL!

[Virgils Ghost]

"Robert Carnegie" <***@excite.com> wrote in message
<

Post by Robert Carnegie
My solution: robot cars. Automatic safe drivers. Only they aren't
quite ready yet - unless we all drive at 5mph 100 yards apart...

If some idiot in an on coming (unautomated) car was travelling straight at
me at 60mph I may want to make evasive manoeuvres of my own beyond 5mph!

Taking away freedom of action is a very dangerous thing, you can end up
putting people in greater danger, take Volvo's "safety features" built into
their engine management if the car detects a problem with a throttle body,
it results in the car instantly dropping to a 30mph safe mode, which isn't
much fun if you're driving 70mph+ in the fast lane, as many drivers have
unfortunately found out. In that case trashing a throttle body is rather
more favourable than a pile up, but which is more important to the computer?

[Peter Hucker]

Post by Virgils Ghost
<

Post by Robert Carnegie
My solution: robot cars. Automatic safe drivers. Only they aren't
quite ready yet - unless we all drive at 5mph 100 yards apart...

If some idiot in an on coming (unautomated) car was travelling straight at
me at 60mph I may want to make evasive manoeuvres of my own beyond 5mph!
Taking away freedom of action is a very dangerous thing, you can end up
putting people in greater danger, take Volvo's "safety features" built into
their engine management if the car detects a problem with a throttle body,
it results in the car instantly dropping to a 30mph safe mode, which isn't
much fun if you're driving 70mph+ in the fast lane, as many drivers have
unfortunately found out. In that case trashing a throttle body is rather
more favourable than a pile up, but which is more important to the computer?

How rapidly does it decelerate to 30?

[MrBitsy]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of
the governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He
knew that the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to road
safety of the removal of traffic police. He was also highly
critical of police responses to emergency calls and the way that
complaints were handled in ever-controlling Blair's Britain.

Does his fate support his arguments, or undermine them? Just a
thought.
If we all drove at 5mph 100 yards apart, accidents would be very rare
indeed.

Accidents would also be very rare if we drove how we were taught to and
followed the HC.

[Steve Walker]

Post by MrBitsy
Accidents would also be very rare if we drove how we were taught to and
followed the HC.

One assumes that newly qualified drivers drive how they were taught to
and follow the HC. Their accident statistics are appalling.

[Brimstone]

Post by Steve Walker

Post by MrBitsy
Accidents would also be very rare if we drove how we were taught to
and followed the HC.

One assumes that newly qualified drivers drive how they were taught to
and follow the HC. Their accident statistics are appalling.

That would be an incorrect assumption.

[Steve Walker]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Steve Walker

Post by MrBitsy
Accidents would also be very rare if we drove how we were taught to
and followed the HC.

One assumes that newly qualified drivers drive how they were taught to
and follow the HC. Their accident statistics are appalling.

That would be an incorrect assumption.

In absolute terms, maybe. Relative to a more experienced driver, I doubt
it.

[johannes]

Post by Steve Walker

Post by Brimstone

Post by Steve Walker

Post by MrBitsy
Accidents would also be very rare if we drove how we were taught to
and followed the HC.

One assumes that newly qualified drivers drive how they were taught to
and follow the HC. Their accident statistics are appalling.

That would be an incorrect assumption.

In absolute terms, maybe. Relative to a more experienced driver, I doubt
it.

Yeah right. A so-called experienced driver thinks he is Michael Shumacker,
very impatient, never giving away an inch to other drivers, never letting
anyone into his lane in front of him...

[Steve Walker]

Post by johannes

Post by Steve Walker

Post by Brimstone

Post by Steve Walker

Post by MrBitsy
Accidents would also be very rare if we drove how we were taught to
and followed the HC.

One assumes that newly qualified drivers drive how they were taught to
and follow the HC. Their accident statistics are appalling.

That would be an incorrect assumption.

In absolute terms, maybe. Relative to a more experienced driver, I doubt
it.

Yeah right. A so-called experienced driver thinks he is Michael Shumacker,
very impatient, never giving away an inch to other drivers, never letting
anyone into his lane in front of him...

Are strawmen even allowed to drive cars?

Less experienced drivers, on average, have more accidents than more
experienced drivers. This is accurately reflected in their insurance
premiums.

[Brimstone]

Post by johannes

Post by Steve Walker

Post by Brimstone

Post by Steve Walker

Post by MrBitsy
Accidents would also be very rare if we drove how we were taught
to and followed the HC.

One assumes that newly qualified drivers drive how they were
taught to and follow the HC. Their accident statistics are
appalling.

That would be an incorrect assumption.

In absolute terms, maybe. Relative to a more experienced driver, I
doubt it.

Yeah right. A so-called experienced driver thinks he is Michael
Shumacker, very impatient, never giving away an inch to other
drivers, never letting anyone into his lane in front of him...

That's someone who *thinks* he's experienced. A genuinely experienced driver
gives other people space and time.

[r***@excite.com]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Steve Walker

Post by MrBitsy
Accidents would also be very rare if we drove how we were taught to
and followed the HC.

One assumes that newly qualified drivers drive how they were taught to
and follow the HC. Their accident statistics are appalling.

That would be an incorrect assumption.

Newly qualified drivers are less experienced, which is important - but
I think that following the Highway Code is where it falls down.
"Dangerous driving" also is against the law. It seems to me that
attempting to drive beyond your abilities, for instance in terms of
speed and safe driving, is certainly "dangerous".

I expect I don't need to tell you how lower speed limits for new
drivers in Northern Ireland worked out.

[Aaron Meadows]

5mph ? r u bloody crazy ? you might aswell be walking instead.
--
Aaron Meadows
Switchboard Operator
Email: ***@team.dodo.com.au
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Dodo Australia Pty Ltd
Level 2, 1001 Nepean Hwy
Moorabbin VIC 3189

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by d***@aol.com
TalkSport radio presenter Mike Dickin was passionately critical of the
governments abandonment of genuine road safety measures. He knew that
the camera culture was a cover-up, hiding the loss to road safety of
the removal of traffic police. He was also highly critical of police
responses to emergency calls and the way that complaints were handled
in ever-controlling Blair's Britain.

Does his fate support his arguments, or undermine them? Just a
thought.
If we all drove at 5mph 100 yards apart, accidents would be very rare
indeed.
My solution: robot cars. Automatic safe drivers. Only they aren't
quite ready yet - unless we all drive at 5mph 100 yards apart...

[Tiddy Ogg]

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 04:41:41 GMT, "Aaron Meadows"

Post by Aaron Meadows
5mph ? r u bloody crazy ? you might aswell be walking instead.

I thought it was the Yanks that didn't understand irony.

Tiddy Ogg.
http://www.tiddyogg.co.uk

[Brimstone]

Post by Tiddy Ogg
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 04:41:41 GMT, "Aaron Meadows"

Post by Aaron Meadows
5mph ? r u bloody crazy ? you might aswell be walking instead.

I thought it was the Yanks that didn't understand irony.

Sadly some Brits are equally thick.

[Adrian]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Tiddy Ogg
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 04:41:41 GMT, "Aaron Meadows"

Post by Aaron Meadows
5mph ? r u bloody crazy ? you might aswell be walking instead.

I thought it was the Yanks that didn't understand irony.

Sadly some Brits are equally thick.

Indeed.

What about the Aussies, though?

[Brimstone]

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Tiddy Ogg
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 04:41:41 GMT, "Aaron Meadows"

Post by Aaron Meadows
5mph ? r u bloody crazy ? you might aswell be walking instead.

I thought it was the Yanks that didn't understand irony.

Sadly some Brits are equally thick.

Indeed.
What about the Aussies, though?

I'd guess that like any other race, some Aborigines are highly intelligent
and some are thick.

[Adrian]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
What about the Aussies, though?

I'd guess that like any other race, some Aborigines are highly
intelligent and some are thick.

How about the other 99% of the population of Australia?

[Brimstone]

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
What about the Aussies, though?

I'd guess that like any other race, some Aborigines are highly
intelligent and some are thick.

How about the other 99% of the population of Australia?

Most of them are Europeans, with a rising number of Asians. But you
indicated Australians rather than comparatively recent (200 years or so)
immigrants and their descendents.

[Adrian]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
What about the Aussies, though?

I'd guess that like any other race, some Aborigines are highly
intelligent and some are thick.

How about the other 99% of the population of Australia?

Most of them are Europeans, with a rising number of Asians. But you
indicated Australians rather than comparatively recent (200 years or so)
immigrants and their descendents.

Yes, I thought you were probably taking that approach to it...

So somebody whose family have lived in Australia for four generations
aren't Australians?

[Brimstone]

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
What about the Aussies, though?

I'd guess that like any other race, some Aborigines are highly
intelligent and some are thick.

How about the other 99% of the population of Australia?

Most of them are Europeans, with a rising number of Asians. But you
indicated Australians rather than comparatively recent (200 years or
so) immigrants and their descendents.

Yes, I thought you were probably taking that approach to it...
So somebody whose family have lived in Australia for four generations
aren't Australians?

Whar is an Australian? What make him/her significantly different from those
people in the country from which his forebears emigrated (voluntarily or
otherwise)?

In other words, if someone went to Oz 200 years ago (voluntarily or
otherwise), in what way will his descendents be different to the descendents
of his siblings who remained in the UK?

[Adrian]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
What about the Aussies, though?

I'd guess that like any other race, some Aborigines are highly
intelligent and some are thick.

How about the other 99% of the population of Australia?

Most of them are Europeans, with a rising number of Asians. But you
indicated Australians rather than comparatively recent (200 years or
so) immigrants and their descendents.

Yes, I thought you were probably taking that approach to it...
So somebody whose family have lived in Australia for four generations
aren't Australians?

Whar is an Australian?

I'd have said it was somebody who held an Australian passport, or was
entitled to do so.

Post by Brimstone
What make him/her significantly different from those people in the
country from which his forebears emigrated (voluntarily or otherwise)?

His passport entitlement.

Post by Brimstone
In other words, if someone went to Oz 200 years ago (voluntarily or
otherwise), in what way will his descendents be different to the
descendents of his siblings who remained in the UK?

They'll have Aussie passports, and a silly accent.

[Brimstone]

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
What about the Aussies, though?

I'd guess that like any other race, some Aborigines are highly
intelligent and some are thick.

How about the other 99% of the population of Australia?

Most of them are Europeans, with a rising number of Asians. But you
indicated Australians rather than comparatively recent (200 years or
so) immigrants and their descendents.

Yes, I thought you were probably taking that approach to it...
So somebody whose family have lived in Australia for four generations
aren't Australians?

Whar is an Australian?

I'd have said it was somebody who held an Australian passport, or was
entitled to do so.

Post by Brimstone
What make him/her significantly different from those people in the
country from which his forebears emigrated (voluntarily or otherwise)?

His passport entitlement.

Hence I said "significantly different from those people". Bureaucracy isn't
what makes people different.

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone
In other words, if someone went to Oz 200 years ago (voluntarily or
otherwise), in what way will his descendents be different to the
descendents of his siblings who remained in the UK?

They'll have Aussie passports, and a silly accent.

Quite, so apart ftom the silly accent, no significant difference.

[Brian McAllister]

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:18:12 -0000, "Brimstone"

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone
In other words, if someone went to Oz 200 years ago (voluntarily or
otherwise), in what way will his descendents be different to the
descendents of his siblings who remained in the UK?

They'll have Aussie passports, and a silly accent.

Quite, so apart ftom the silly accent, no significant difference.

I believe that they will be much more self-reliant.


Brian McAllister

Sarasota, Florida

email bkm at oldtech dot net ***@hope.thespambots.die

[Brimstone]

Post by Brian McAllister
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:18:12 -0000, "Brimstone"

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone
In other words, if someone went to Oz 200 years ago (voluntarily or
otherwise), in what way will his descendents be different to the
descendents of his siblings who remained in the UK?

They'll have Aussie passports, and a silly accent.

Quite, so apart ftom the silly accent, no significant difference.

I believe that they will be much more self-reliant.

It's my understanding that the average city dweller in Aus is pretty much
the same as a city dweller in the UK or USA, just as someone from a remote
rural area in any of those countries will be similar.

[Adrian]

Post by Brimstone
It's my understanding that the average city dweller in Aus is pretty
much the same as a city dweller in the UK or USA, just as someone from
a remote rural area in any of those countries will be similar.

We really don't have anywhere that a yank'd call "remote" in the UK - let
alone by Aussie standards...

[Brimstone]

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone
It's my understanding that the average city dweller in Aus is pretty
much the same as a city dweller in the UK or USA, just as someone from
a remote rural area in any of those countries will be similar.

We really don't have anywhere that a yank'd call "remote" in the UK - let
alone by Aussie standards...

Agreed that distances are shorter, but it's the mindset that's relevant.

[Adrian]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone
It's my understanding that the average city dweller in Aus is pretty
much the same as a city dweller in the UK or USA, just as someone
from a remote rural area in any of those countries will be similar.

We really don't have anywhere that a yank'd call "remote" in the UK -
let alone by Aussie standards...

Agreed that distances are shorter, but it's the mindset that's
relevant.

You've never been to the Aussie outback, have you?

[Brimstone]

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone
It's my understanding that the average city dweller in Aus is
pretty much the same as a city dweller in the UK or USA, just as
someone from a remote rural area in any of those countries will be
similar.

We really don't have anywhere that a yank'd call "remote" in the UK
- let alone by Aussie standards...

Agreed that distances are shorter, but it's the mindset that's relevant.

You've never been to the Aussie outback, have you?

The relevance being?

[Adrian]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
We really don't have anywhere that a yank'd call "remote" in the UK
- let alone by Aussie standards...

Agreed that distances are shorter, but it's the mindset that's relevant.

You've never been to the Aussie outback, have you?

The relevance being?

That the mindsets are *VERY* different between Much-Plonking-in-the-Marsh
and Wogga Wogga...

Strange that, what with "UK-remote" meaning half an hour from the Waitrose
in Cirencester, whilst "Aussie-remote" meaning two days drive from your
front gate and then another day to your nearest neighbours.

[Brimstone]

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
We really don't have anywhere that a yank'd call "remote" in the
UK - let alone by Aussie standards...

Agreed that distances are shorter, but it's the mindset that's relevant.

You've never been to the Aussie outback, have you?

The relevance being?

That the mindsets are *VERY* different between
Much-Plonking-in-the-Marsh and Wogga Wogga...

I wasn't thinking of Much Plonking.

Post by Adrian
Strange that, what with "UK-remote" meaning half an hour from the
Waitrose in Cirencester, whilst "Aussie-remote" meaning two days
drive from your front gate and then another day to your nearest
neighbours.

Siting in your nice cosy southeastern England suburb you might well have a
supermarket a few miles down the road. Not everyone in the UK does.

[Adrian]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
We really don't have anywhere that a yank'd call "remote" in the
UK - let alone by Aussie standards...

Agreed that distances are shorter, but it's the mindset that's relevant.

You've never been to the Aussie outback, have you?

The relevance being?

That the mindsets are *VERY* different between
Much-Plonking-in-the-Marsh and Wogga Wogga...

I wasn't thinking of Much Plonking.

Auchtergloaming, then.

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
Strange that, what with "UK-remote" meaning half an hour from the
Waitrose in Cirencester, whilst "Aussie-remote" meaning two days
drive from your front gate and then another day to your nearest
neighbours.

Siting in your nice cosy southeastern England suburb you might well
have a supermarket a few miles down the road. Not everyone in the UK
does.

Indeed they don't.

Like, for example, some cousin-in-laws who - when they were running a
B&B on a fairly arse-end-of-nowhere bit of Wester Ross coastline, had to
drive a whole hour and a half to Inverness for anything that the small
shop in the nearest town (about five miles) doesn't stock.

The only public transport within a sizable radius was the postman.

It's still not even close to within an order of magnitude to the
remoteness of the outback. Or, even, very large bits of Texas.

[Brimstone]

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
We really don't have anywhere that a yank'd call "remote" in the
UK - let alone by Aussie standards...

Agreed that distances are shorter, but it's the mindset that's relevant.

You've never been to the Aussie outback, have you?

The relevance being?

That the mindsets are *VERY* different between
Much-Plonking-in-the-Marsh and Wogga Wogga...

I wasn't thinking of Much Plonking.

Auchtergloaming, then.

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
Strange that, what with "UK-remote" meaning half an hour from the
Waitrose in Cirencester, whilst "Aussie-remote" meaning two days
drive from your front gate and then another day to your nearest
neighbours.

Siting in your nice cosy southeastern England suburb you might well
have a supermarket a few miles down the road. Not everyone in the UK
does.

Indeed they don't.
Like, for example, some cousin-in-laws who - when they were running a
B&B on a fairly arse-end-of-nowhere bit of Wester Ross coastline, had
to drive a whole hour and a half to Inverness for anything that the
small shop in the nearest town (about five miles) doesn't stock.
The only public transport within a sizable radius was the postman.
It's still not even close to within an order of magnitude to the
remoteness of the outback. Or, even, very large bits of Texas.

So they have to drive a couple of hours instead of an hour and a half, big
deal

[Adrian]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
Strange that, what with "UK-remote" meaning half an hour from the
Waitrose in Cirencester, whilst "Aussie-remote" meaning two days
drive from your front gate and then another day to your nearest
neighbours.

Siting in your nice cosy southeastern England suburb you might well
have a supermarket a few miles down the road. Not everyone in the UK
does.

Indeed they don't.
Like, for example, some cousin-in-laws who - when they were running a
B&B on a fairly arse-end-of-nowhere bit of Wester Ross coastline, had
to drive a whole hour and a half to Inverness for anything that the
small shop in the nearest town (about five miles) doesn't stock.
The only public transport within a sizable radius was the postman.
It's still not even close to within an order of magnitude to the
remoteness of the outback. Or, even, very large bits of Texas.

So they have to drive a couple of hours instead of an hour and a half,
big deal

I think you'll find that's my point...

[Brimstone]

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
Strange that, what with "UK-remote" meaning half an hour from the
Waitrose in Cirencester, whilst "Aussie-remote" meaning two days
drive from your front gate and then another day to your nearest
neighbours.

Siting in your nice cosy southeastern England suburb you might well
have a supermarket a few miles down the road. Not everyone in the
UK does.

Indeed they don't.
Like, for example, some cousin-in-laws who - when they were running
a B&B on a fairly arse-end-of-nowhere bit of Wester Ross coastline,
had to drive a whole hour and a half to Inverness for anything that
the small shop in the nearest town (about five miles) doesn't stock.
The only public transport within a sizable radius was the postman.
It's still not even close to within an order of magnitude to the
remoteness of the outback. Or, even, very large bits of Texas.

So they have to drive a couple of hours instead of an hour and a
half, big deal

I think you'll find that's my point...

My point is, that it's not how far one is from the supermarket that decides
how self reliant someone is. It's an attitude of mind.

[Brian McAllister]

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:58:26 -0000, "Brimstone"

Post by Brimstone
My point is, that it's not how far one is from the supermarket that decides
how self reliant someone is. It's an attitude of mind.

And how far one is from the local planning board and other government
entities whose job is is to stifle individualism.


Brian McAllister

Sarasota, Florida

email bkm at oldtech dot net ***@hope.thespambots.die

[Sam Nelson]

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
What about the Aussies, though?

I'd guess that like any other race, some Aborigines are highly
intelligent and some are thick.

How about the other 99% of the population of Australia?

Most of them are Europeans, with a rising number of Asians. But you
indicated Australians rather than comparatively recent (200 years or so)
immigrants and their descendents.

Yes, I thought you were probably taking that approach to it...
So somebody whose family have lived in Australia for four generations
aren't Australians?

It depends on whether they've integrated properly with the indigenous
culture during those generations, I guess.

[JNugent]

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian

Post by Brimstone

Post by Adrian
What about the Aussies, though?

I'd guess that like any other race, some Aborigines are highly
intelligent and some are thick.

How about the other 99% of the population of Australia?

Most of them are Europeans, with a rising number of Asians. But you
indicated Australians rather than comparatively recent (200 years or so)
immigrants and their descendents.

Using "Aborigine" as a "clever" synonym for
"Australian" doesn't work.

The word is used (and makes sense) only to
distinguish that part of the population from the
rest - because the rest are also Australians.
Indeed, the term was coined to describe everyone
who lived there after colonisation.

So, how else could the "joke" have been rendered?

Let's see...

Q: What about the Aussies, though?

A: I'd guess that like any other race, some
Aboriginal Australians are highly intelligent and
some are thick.

Doesn't convince, does it? Mainly because the
response contains that explicit evasion of the
obvious terms of the question.

It's a joke that doesn't work.

[Aaron Meadows]

well you must be a brit then. cos I'm an aussie
--
Aaron Meadows
Switchboard Operator
Email: ***@team.dodo.com.au
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Dodo Australia Pty Ltd
Level 2, 1001 Nepean Hwy
Moorabbin VIC 3189

Post by Brimstone

Post by Tiddy Ogg
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 04:41:41 GMT, "Aaron Meadows"

Post by Aaron Meadows
5mph ? r u bloody crazy ? you might aswell be walking instead.

I thought it was the Yanks that didn't understand irony.

Sadly some Brits are equally thick.

[Ivan]

Post by Tiddy Ogg
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 04:41:41 GMT, "Aaron Meadows"

Post by Aaron Meadows
5mph ? r u bloody crazy ? you might aswell be walking instead.

I thought it was the Yanks that didn't understand irony.

BTW, I haven't heard a peep about the outcome of any subsequent inquest,
does anyone know if anymore details about the accident been made public yet?

Post by Tiddy Ogg
Tiddy Ogg.
http://www.tiddyogg.co.uk

[Elder]

Post by d***@aol.com
Very few broadcasters speak up for the public as Mike did. It is the
country's loss as well as his family's.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/20/udickin120.xml

Agreed. Sad loss really, I listened to James Whale, and Mike Allen's
tribute show last night.

He made me laugh and scream at the same time sometimes. A proper
journalist, and a proper human being (at least in his public persona,
and from the phone ins last night from friends, his personal one too).

Shit really does happen sometimes.

[lurkio]

someone likes to be listened to - hence the multiNG -postings ?

[Turk182]

Post by lurkio
someone likes to be listened to - hence the multiNG -postings ?

Someone like to hide ?

[Elder]

Post by lurkio
someone likes to be listened to - hence the multiNG -postings ?

DILLIGAF